Vasu Murti's blog

wow!

This is a new Da Vinci code movie.

Dear Prabhu, I am really impressed by your research and experience in this.

I am a small filmmaker in NYC/Ohio. Do you want to create some kind of documentary on the life of paul where we can interview some of these people (who live)?

How did you come to know of these things?

what is your background? Please elaborate your glories.

Thank you so much for being there.

I feel relieved.

Your servant
Sri kisore das

My Dear Mataji,

This is a nice article on vegetarianism but Srila Prabhupada never asked anyone to become vegans. The very fact that cow is one of the seven mothers is because we consume cow milk. Yasoda mata is churning butter herself so that she can offer it to "Gopal". Vedically 1 cow and a small piece of land is what one needs to live a comfortable life. So no where Scriptures is veganisim promoted.

We have to follow acharyas and not concoct something new, Srila Prabhupada took milk (even in America). Srila Prabhupada wanted cow protection and people offer milk to Lord Sri Krishna. How can we deny Krishna what he likes the most, Cow's milk and Cow's Milk products.


Abhay Charan das

Paul was more of a Judas than Judas.

Thank you for posting this.

Jesus told his disciples to ALWAYS "pray without ceasing" (Luke 21:36), and Paul repeated these words to the gentiles (I Thessalonians 5:17). However, this is the only point on which Jesus and Paul agree.? Paul taught a completely different theology from that of Jesus and the original apostles.

Jesus repeatedly spoke of God's tender care for the nonhuman creation (Matthew 6:26-30, 10:29-31; Luke 12:6-7, 24-28). Paul, on the other hand, in I Corinthians 9:9-10, asked scornfully, "Does God take care for oxen?" when referring to one of the commandments in Mosaic Law calling for the humane treatment of animals.

Christians think they are no longer under Mosaic Law, because Paul referred to his background as a former Pharisee and previous adherence to Mosaic Law (with its dietary laws and commandments calling for the humane treatment of animals) as "so much garbage." (Philippians 3:4-8)

Nothing in the synoptic gospels suggests a break with Judaism. Jesus was called "Rabbi," meaning "Master" or "Teacher," 42 times in the gospels. Jesus' ministry was a rabbinic one. He went to the synagogue (Matthew 12:9), taught in the synagogues (Matthew 4:23, 13:54; Mark 1:39), expressed concern for Jairus, "one of the rulers of the synagogue" (Mark 5:36) and it "was his custom" to go to the synagogue (Luke 4:16).

Jesus himself said, "Do not suppose I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill...till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle pass from the Law till all is fulfilled. Whoever, therefore, breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven...unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

Jesus also upheld the Torah in Luke 16:17: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest portion of the Law to become invalid."

Nor do these words refer merely to the Ten Commandments. Jesus meant the entire Torah: 613 commandments. When a man asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus replied, "You know the commandments." He quoted not just the Ten Commandments, but a commandment from Leviticus 19:13 as well: "Do not defraud." (Mark 10:17-22)

Jesus' disciples were once accused by the scribes and Pharisees of violating rabbinical tradition (Matthew 15:1-2; Mark 7:5), but not biblical law. Jesus never says anywhere in the entire New Testament that the Law is abolished; this was Paul's theology.

Sometimes Christians cite Matthew 7:12, where Jesus says "Do unto others..." and this "covers" the Law and the prophets. But Jesus was merely repeating in the positive what Rabbi Hillel taught a generation earlier. No one took Hillel's words to mean the Law had been abolished--why should we assume this of Jesus?

If Jesus really did come to abolish the Law and the prophets, Simon (Peter) would not have resisted a divine command to kill and eat both "clean" and "unclean" animals (Acts 10), nor would there have been a debate in the early church as to what extent the gentiles were to observe Mosaic Law (Acts 15). When Paul visited the church at Jerusalem, James and the elders told him all its members were "zealous for the Law," and they were worried because they heard rumors Paul was preaching against Mosaic Law (Acts 21). None of these events would have happened had Jesus really come to abolish the Law and the prophets.

Paul says if anyone has confidence in the Law, "I am ahead of him."

Would that mean Paul places himself ahead of Jesus, who said he did not come to abolish the Law and the prophets? Would that mean Paul places himself ahead of Jesus, who said whoever sets aside even the least of the Law's demands shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-19)?

Would that mean Paul places himself ahead of Jesus, who taught that following the commandments of God is the only way to eternal life (Mark 10:17-22)? Would that mean Paul places himself ahead of Jesus who said that it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest portion of the Law to become invalid (Luke 16:17)?

Paul may have regarded the Law as "so much garbage," but it should be obvious JESUS DIDN'T THINK THE LAW WAS "GARBAGE"!

In The Story of Christian Origins, secular scholar Dr. Martin A. Larson notes further that Paul declares that his followers may even eat food offered to pagan idols (contradicting the resurrected Jesus in Revelation 2:14,20). Whereas Jesus honored women and found in them his most devoted followers, Paul never tires of proclaiming their inferiority.

Christians believe in Paul, not Jesus. Bertrand Russell called Paul the "inventor" of Christianity.


Your servant,

---Vasu
vasumurti@netscape.net

Hare Krsna

Very interesting article on the straying of Paul's teachings from the essence of Christ.

Being uninformed on the specifics, I was wondering if you could give me a quick outline or point me in the right direction of finding out specifically the differences between Paul's teachings and the teachings of Christ.

Thank you!

Below the big "Hare Krishna" painted on the back of my car is a sticker that says, "A hamburger stops a beating heart," with imagery similar to the analogous anti-abortion sticker.

Dear, Sir-Madam.
We runs Kamdhenu Kutumbkam in Amravati, center India. Our motto is to save Indian breed Cow ,Farmer & Farming land. Somebody may thinks without cow human life can pass very comfortably.But it is not true,now-a-days in human society facing so many problems like, incurable dangerous deices cancer, heart fail ,brain tumors,kidney fail,mental deices many many....& also No Love for family,nation,friends, society, & no satisfactions in life. Everybody is seeking for peace,happiness& love.In society founds so much money but their is No......
We have a history of ancient India, our people use to do only cow-keeping with organic-farming. At that time they had good health , prosperity, happy life, Love etc....Even emperor Sikandar was shock & surprised at that time. and can not understand.
We thinks Only Cow can bring peace ,prosperity , Happiness & Good health by organic farming the human society. One Cow gives in the year 230 kg. of methane Gas,Organic fertilizers for 3-4 acrs. land.& also 400-1200 liters of milk . But unfortunately every day in India over 60,000 cows get kills . In future in 2015 will found No Indian Breed cow on land of India . You will find Cow only in picture.
So we beg you ' Please Save INDIAN breed Cow ' This is the only solution , time left.If any one not come forward such Innocent cow will be finish. Please help us to save cow. We been studying cow & farmer from last 16 years . WE have many ideas to save our native breed . Ride now breed fully contaminated , we have improve our breed by using pure breed Bulls. & also spread massage to use cow products in society . Then Cow can be saved..................
KAMDHENU KUTUMBKAM.
(Gosevak)lane-2,shyam nagar,
Nr. Maltekdi +91-9850344535
Amravati (m.s.) India

I too must diagree with you on your saying that Lord Krsna loves the cows, not the milk. Milk and milk products are very prominent in the descriptions of what Krsna eats. You are right in your statements that the modern day milk production is full of faults, but please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here. Yes, we must establish proper cow protection, and as a result establish a healthy milk supply.
What may I ask is your alternative?? Soy and soy products?? If you google "dangers of soy" you will see why Prabhupada said on more than one occasion that soybeans are meant for animal consumption, and not human consumption. It is far more poisonous than even our modern day milk supply. Please take the time to research that.
By organic milk...it's readily available today even in most grocery stores...and offer it to Krsna and ENJOY!!

I was an animal rights activist before I knew the Hare Krishna movement existed (and still am).

I'm inclined to reiterate the same point as the previous commentator. If Srila Prabhupada wanted us to be vegans, he would have said so. Instead he taught about the importance of drinking milk. It's true that conditions have worsened for cows since Srila Prabhupada spoke about them, but he knew very well the influence of kali yuga. The developments of the past 30 years would not have surprised him at all, I'm sure.

A related point is that the large majority of vegans I've known are also atheists. The only non-atheist vegans I've ever met have been a few Hare Krishna folks. I don't know how they honor temple prasadam.

And lastly, I live near Gita-nagari, and it's no model farm community. There is cow protection but no other farming. Last year there was no garden at all. The temple buys milk from a nearby (vi)karmi dairy farm. The hay fields are rented to another nearby farmer, who cuts the hay for his animals and to sell. I have to buy hay for my cow and other farm animals from another farmer at premium prices. The fact is that Gita-nagari is a rural Hare Krishna community but not much of a farm community.

Pranams Prabhus and Glories to Srila Prabhupada,

If you are ready for the truth about Christianity please go here and read about it. The Vaishnavas who started the site are all scholars and know way more about the history of Christianity than any devotees I ever met.

Hare Krishna

http://www.burningcross.net/

I'm really surprised that any of this still remains to be said in ISKCON of 2008.

Everything you say is relevant and true of course; I'm just surprised that somewhere in ISKCON it still needs to be said.

Here at Bhaktivedanta Manor, UK, where the term FOLK was first conceived, we've had a thriving congregation for decades and wouldn't have it any other way. Having a laity does not interfere with the enthusiastic commitment of the clergy, rather, the clergy take their enhanced levels of commitment after long periods as laity.

Go Vasu Murti! :-)

Hey, drop by ISKCON Constitution.com and check it out if you have some time: www.iskconconstitution.com. Most of the action is in the comments so far, but you are welcome to chip in there if you are inspired, or write an article for the site.

ys,
sda

Hare Krishna.

Thank you very much for your gentle opinion and the nice quotes and photos of devotees, cows and Srila Prabhupada. I hope you will not mind if i present some contrasting idea. First place, nowhere does Srila Prabhupada instruct his followers to be vegan. According to his instructions, in all the temples around the world milk products are offered to Lord Krishna, Who is the Supreme Personality and Who does, in fact, love not only cows but milk and milk products. He is eternally famous as Makanchor, the butter thief. Those lucky cows whose milk is bought by Hare Krishna devotees and offered to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna are spiritually benefitted by having their milk offered to HIm. Srila Prabhupada told the teachers in the gurukula that the children must be given two cups of milk a day to drink to develop the finer brain tissues needed to understand spritual life. Srila Prabhupada appreciated how the cows were often kept very nicely by the western dairies even though he knew how they would eventually end up and condemned that.

So benefit cows..buy their milk and offer it with love to Sri Govinda. Donate to ISKCON cow protection programs. Keep speaking what Srila Prabhupada has taught. Thank you. Hare Krishna

Prabhu,

I have to point out that we don't live in a true democracy, but a constitutional republic. It was Ben Franklin who said "democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner". The idea being, that with a constitutional republic, it's the rule of law vs. tyranny of the majority so you don't have the majority doing things such as enslaving the minority.

There is nothing in the constitution about "democracy". Upon leaving the constitional convention, a woman asked Ben Franklin "What have you given us sir?" to which he replied "A republic, if you can keep it."

Hari Bol!

Hare Krishna. I've been waiting since the last blog entry and I'm not disappointed. Always good stuff here. This brought to mind a related subject. Many people say they believe in God, but Krishna actually is God. Many of those who claim to believe in God say Krishna is not God. Maybe they have another name for God, but these people are opposed to the notion that Krishna is God; yet they say they believe in God. There are so many people like this. What is their status in spiritual life?

Krishna answers the question in Bhagavad-gita 9.11-12, wherein He says, "Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be. Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated."

Although a person may profess to believe in God, if he derides Krishna, then according to Krishna he is a a demoniac and atheistic fool. He does not speak favorably about these so-called religious people.

Typically they belong to one of the religions of the meat eaters. In Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Adi Lila 17.167, speaking of cow eaters, Lord Caitanya says, "There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument." In the purports to verses 168 and 169, Srila Prabhupada puts the meat-eater religions in their proper place with words such as "The sastras of the yavanas, or meat-eaters, are not eternal scriptures. They have been fashioned recently, and sometimes they contradict one another. The scriptures of the yavanas are three: the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran. Their compilation has a history; they are not eternal like the Vedic knowledge. Therefore although they have their arguments and reasonings, they are not very sound and transcendental. As such, modern people advanced in science and philosophy deem these scriptures unacceptable."

Actually it sometimes seems that the mundane success of the meat-eater religions inhibit the development of genuine spiritual life. As Srila Prabhupada suggested, modern intelligent people encounter nonsense in the non-Vedic scriptures and deem religion unacceptable. They think it and even God are man's creations. They teach that someone is God but not Krishna, or that everyone is God but not Krishna, or that there is no God; but unless they accept that Krishna is God, according to His statement in B.g. 9.12, they are atheists.

I find talking to and sharing KC with people of different faiths very rewarding, especially I have found that they have given me great support and strength throughout the years.
The cultural and philosophical exchanges have been very fantastic
The book Krsna Consciousness and christianity is very useful.
Lovely posting

I think the extent of Mormon avoidance of meat may be a bit exaggerated here (I have many Mormon friends and their diets do not contain less meat than typical Americans), but the comparison with Mormonism is actually quite creative and compelling. The comparison to Mormon polygamy doesn't serve ISKCON, however, as polygamy is a mark against any religion in the context of modern ethical standards, and Prabhupada's statements that girls be married by sixteen and that men can take more than one wife perfectly reflect the need for ISKCON to reconsider and reject, reinterpret, or modify some of his teachings.

Mormonism could never have acquired its current size without unequivocally rejecting polygamy, as it did in the late 1800's. Similarly, ISKCON will exist perpetually on the fringe if it doesn't reject its uncompromising theology and if it doesn't adopt precisely the congregational model for which you so eloquently and persuasively argue.

I believe that if your theological orientation and insight become more influential in ISKCON, then ISKCON may achieve a more respected status in American theology.

"Jews and Muslims consider it blasphemy to worship anyone other than God."

They're so worried about worshipping false gods that they neglect Sri Krishna and criticise His devotees. It's easy to say "God is great," as long as God means nobody, but presented with an actual person who is God, suddenly atheists abound.

Amazing blog. Hare Krishna.

I also have cats, but feed htem no meat, Cats need taurin. We buy food from www.veggieppets.com, have a look, they also eat "mock" duck, chicken etc, which you get from chinese stores. It is made from soya and a kind of wheat called setan, or something similar, our cats also happened to like corn, chick peas, I think anything high in protein.

We have been feeding them all this for over two years now, they are both fine. The article about milk, I have heard many times, and find it harder to "argue" against, or "justify" that I, like so many, buy milk from a supermarket. I hope we will have more farms in the future. I might do some research to see if there is any chance some supermarket or dairy does not take part in the process of giving away the calves for killing.

Of course, whether we stop buying milk or not, we are still supporting the supermarkets, buying so many things from non devotees who use that money for sinful activity, I don't think it's enough to only focus on the milk issue, though it is a step in the right direction, but we should get to a stage where we are completely independent of the "system", otherwise there will always be some problem, cows are going to be killed still, in the long run we need to change the hearts of the people and leaders, that is the mission.

One person on this thread mentioned that they see Hindus who visit the temple, wearing leather shoes, i also see many full time devotees wearing them? Where do we go from here? it's a big topic and a lot more needs to be done!

Haribol

I felt very comfortable with all the sentiments you expressed here. I have been a lacto-ovo-vegetarian for 31 years, a vegan for 5 years and became interested in Krishna Consciousness recently.
I agree very much with Sarah Walsh's opening remarks (above).
I feel that devotees, of all people, should not support the cruel and exploitative dairy industry. Having said that, my own household includes two aging cats, and feeding them meat troubles me greatly. Next life, No Cats!
It is very encouraging to know that veganism is not excluded from Krishna Consciousness.
Dandavats Prabhu.